What Do the People Of Invercargill Really Think about Their Licensing Trust?
Latest Comments Previous comments Earliest comments
PAGE 3 of previous comments. Latest at the top, oldest at bottom
---------------------------
Let’s wake and smell the coffee beans People!!!! Can anyone honestly believe that they would rather give millions of dollars away each month to international chains and Auckland based businessmen and in turn depriving a community owned organisation the opportunity to give back the money through project sponsorships and grants. All for a bottle of pxss $3 cheaper at the local NEW WORLD… ‘What the…’ The answer is not a referendum to get rid of the ILT; the answer is to whip an old dinosaur into shape. I work for the Organization and I see first hand some dodgy things from time to time but I understand that the community benefits and there is no denying that one fact. Since everyone is trying to change things behind a computer desk how about you demand some changes direct to the General Manager himself. He works for the ILT board who are voted in by us the community. Put pressure on the president of the board to make some key management changes. That’s all it takes, just like any business, it all happens at the top. They can’t ignore it, if the community comes together in a united voice and want changes then the ILT board will have little choice but to finally pump some young and up to date blood into the business which will therefore bring it somewhere close to the 21st century….Let us hope anyway. Don’t be afraid to make some demands, contact these men. Have a problem with the limited selection of alcohol in the taverns, bars, restaurants and the liquor outlets??? E-mail Terry Laidlaw, the Purchasing Executive - terry@ilt.co.nz / Don’t like the attitude or the service provided by the staff and/or the Management??? E-mail Greg McElhinney, the Human Resources Manager - mac@ilt.co.nz / Don’t like the kind of taverns, pubs, clubs, hotels/motels and restaurants on offer??? E-mail Gary Muir, the Sales and Marketing Manager - gary@ilt.co.nz / Don’t like what the ILT’s current projects are or what the ILT are spending your money on or the unavailability of beer and wine at the Local Supermarket??? E-mail Greg Mulvey, the General Manager - greg@ilt.co.nz
All I ask people, let’s not get rid of something so beneficial to the community lets just work together and try and fix it. If these men will not listen to you and I…Well lets just try and get them axed….
Name: Not stated (due to employment risk), Up Town
---------------------------
Looking again, can somebody suggest how do we indicate sufficient support a referendum? Do we need to get paper sheets drawn up and placed around the town for people to sign? How many signatures do we need? I'm guessing that we need 7500 signatures - 15%?
Casey, Invercargill
---------------------------
From what I have seen of their financial results alone are enough for us to be asking some serious questions, let alone the sheer arrogance of the organisation. I fully and wholeheartedly support Talking Shops proposition to request a referendum. Very few of my friends and colleagues are in favour of the status quo, all finding the drear of Invercargill nightlife unacceptable, and the antiquated Trust system an embarrassment.
Casey, Invercargill
---------------------------
George Bernard Shaw, when asked what he thought about New Zealand said, "Altogether too many sheep".
How right he was.
Open your eyes !!
Cheers John
---------------------------
Found this site through Yahoo - am doing some research on the ILT - Its a little shocking. I am having trouble believing this site is for real
Jo, Kew
--------------------------
There is an old saying, "If you do what you have always done, you will get what you have always got".
Invercargill is destined to get what its has always got, due to public apathy.
Wake up!! The ILT are playing you for mugs.
Cheers John
---------------------------
Sal mate thats precisely the attitude i for one would like to change, as it keeps I.L.T going from strength to strength and dictating who can set up business here and who can't, or where you will purchase YOUR alcohol and at what price, i don't want to live in a "Dictatorship Society" where you can be penalised for being different do you? . It may not happen today or tomorrow or even next year but it only takes a pebble to cause an avalanche and Talking -Shop just may be that pebble!? At the very least we know we are not alone in the thought that there must be a better way than the I.L.T way!
Livi - InverZ
---------------------------
My son came home yesterday spouting about some lady who just got on the council going to their school and filling their heads with some: "Youth Initiative" that Allan Dennis and the I.L.T are going to pour $20,000 into for the next 10years.....Wow $200,000 over 10 years!? Isn't that like $385.00 for 52 weekends per year? Doesn't seem that impressive now when you consider that the vandalism...etc per weekend alone through: Alcohol Related Crime in the C.B.D (Central Business District) is most times, more than triple that? And anyway NO amount of money is going to help the situation until I.L.T loses its: "Need to be in control attitude" and puts the Youth and Invercargills needs first,or at least listens with an open mind! Shades of :The CriB, another idea that lacked a backbone and financial commitment. My advice is, Read Up on the Philosophy of the: Reverend Charles Waldegrave of Wellington (before you undertake something of this magnitude for you may very well do more harm than good!) that insight alone is worth over $200,000 Luv the site, thanX again
Regards Livi - InverZ
---------------------------
Regarding previous post about ROI and ROA figures, some are a little off, but certainly theres no real commercial value to ILT operations and profit margins are unacceptable. If run as an ordinary commercial operation it would have lost investors a long time ago. Hmm now who are those investors? The phrase pXXX up at a brewery comes to mind...
Ben, Invercargill
---------------------------
What will a referndum achieve? - theres no way to change anything. People are too apathetic anyways
Sal, Invercargill
---------------------------
Referendum? Absolutely. I would have thought that the support had already showed itself...
Jean, Invercargill
---------------------------
I think this debate has run its course, and that the matter should now be put to the vote.
Mr Chairman, I move that we now initiate a referendum on whether or not we continue with the ILT monopoly.
Do I have a seconder.
Regards John
---------------------------
On the face of it the ILT would appear to offer a good service to the community. On the 80 million of assets it returns about 8 million to the community, about 10%, not a bad rate of return. However, 5 million of this money comes from pokie machines and would be returned to the community anyway (a legal requirement). This means the ILT is returning 3 million on its 80 million in assets, that's under 4%. Not good at all. The money would be better off in the bank. (read the ministry of justice link if you think this is not the case) http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/1997/liquor/licensing.html
If the ILT really had the interest of the people of Invercargill at heart it would sell up and invest the money, just like the community trust has with the money from the sale of the southland bank. If this were to happen there would be : greater financial return to the community, increased diversity in bars and restaurants and cheaper prices for consumers.
Name withheld, Invercargill
---------------------------
To the "Scandalous" lady who appears to have some sort of connection with the I.L.T, i respect your comments as i do all whether i agree with them or not. But if you had have taken the time to read the comments of what I.L.T have done to people in the past and the present through this "Meaningless Survey" you would have realised that it is probably the perfect word to describe what the I.L.T have gotten away with already-Show the public of Invercargill "Some Respect". And its: "Meaningless-Just some Peoples Views"......if that's your view why be so upset about it!?? It cant be that bad if you have taken the time to search for this site and visit it regularly! Maybe I.L.T's slogan should have been more inline with the truth like...."YOUR Money, OUR Trust" !
Livi - InverZ
---------------------------
To all you oldies out there clinging to the way things were a hundred years ago - the world has changed and we want the town to catchup.
Jess. Kew
---------------------------
To "name withheld", respect is something which has to be earned. Your argument for continuing with the ILT's monopoly is very thin.
Also, why hide behind anonymity if what are you afraid of ?
Cheers John
---------------------------
The story in the Express was just pointed out to me - 'not scientific'? Oh please. How much more feeling do you need from us? Give us a referendum now - stop insulting us any further.
Greg - Invercargill
---------------------------
By asking about the price of alcohol in the town - being different - dont you mean cost more here in Invers? Sure looks like it to me -but its a little unclear in the poll.
Todd, Invers
---------------------------
Surely this survey indicates enough interest in making some changes - how much more do we need? I demand that a referendum is held now.
Charlie, Invercargill
---------------------------
I said that this survey is scandalous because its meaningless - its just some peoples views and very disheartening for the people of the Trust who do such a hard job - show some respect. They didnt ask for it and dont want it.
Name withheld, Invercargill
----------------------------
To the person who wrote that this survey is "scandalous", I would like to ask through this column, why he thinks that way. Whether he agrees or not that the ILT deprives the general public of freedom of choice, he must surely recognise that everyone has the right to freedom of speech. Come on, what is your argument, let's hear it.
Regards, John.
----------------------------
Someone told me to look for this survey - I did a yahoo search and here it is! Great to see it - i have cast my vote - time for a change methinks!
Todd, Invers
----------------------------
Thanks for this survey - free speech rules
Harry, Kew
----------------------------
This survey is scandalous
Name withheld, Invercargill
----------------------------
A friend and I were saying after this great story in the Express last week that this was HUGE news for Invercargill, and would mean the end of the ILT - AND WE WOULD HEAR NOTHING ABOUT IT FROM THE SOUTHLAND TIMES! Well here we are days later and not a peep from the Times - not even a letter published from the citizens. If that's not in someone's back pocket then I don't know what is. Good on ya Express! Lets have another story and update! And good on ya Talking Shop!
Pete T, South City
----------------------------
How many people who enter the doors of 'Countdown' wander home and vandalise other peoples property or urinate in the shop doorways and alleyways on the way? How many people have been bottled or assaulted in Countdown over the last 60 years? Would the answer be:1? At least Countdown cleanup their own mess, with their own money and dont use feeble excuses or waste valuable Police time and resources
( Name And Address Withheld, Invercargill )
----------------------------
I am glad to see you are not going to 'go away' with this survey - Its choice that you are going to increase the marketing - I will give stuff out - send some to me.
Ed , Invercargill
----------------------------
How much did Progressive Enterprises (Countdown) donate to the Stadium. Rugby park, Splash Palace, The Civic Theatre, Centre Stage?
R C, Invercargill
----------------------------
Instead of encouraging people to moan amongst themselves, the organises of this survey should be proactive and hire a lawyer to advise on the proper procedure for initiating a poll to decide whether or not we continue with the ILT.
I would have thought that the law of the land would prevent the monopoly to control where and when a particular commodity can be purchased.
Imagine if we had the same situation with regard to bead or milk for instance. How absurd, I hear you say, well no more so than isolating liquor and saying that it can only bought through a monopoly.
A similar situation existed in Russia, where you could only buy food at state controlled outlets. I have seen newsreel films of people queuing to buy bread.
Also in more recent times over there you could buy any car you liked so long as it was a Lada.
No, we don't need monopolies to control our daily lives in NZ.
those who say that the ILT does good in the community are correct, but they are missing the point.
We need freedom of choice.
I strongly urge the initiator of this site NOT to be bought out the ILT, The mere thought that such an offer could be made, is a direct attack on free speech.
Let's get stuck into them.
Regards John, Invercargill
----------------------------
At last an open forum for people to air their views without repercussions that affect their financial ability to provide for their family, a place to say what i damn well like without the I.L.T's lapdogs....ie Some of their top Bar and Hotel Managers taking offence when you bring them facts from employees whom have witnessed first hand certain events that the Invercargill Raid Squad would frown upon.
Mind you we seem to live in a world of fear where not too many of us have the Grit,Stamina or Time to standup for what we believe is right. For fear of repercussions in one form or another especially if you live in Invercargill as you are right in the heart of I.L.T's Monopolisation Capital where if you do not roll the ball their way they take your balls off you
We in Southland live in a community where alot of information is filtered into our homes and we are barraged by media and the opinions of others by:Television, Radio or our local I.L.T propoganda machine....the Southland Times! While we formulate our opinions on the information ( as biased as it may be) from the comfort of our own homes without actually ventureing out to see what is really happening by talking to those at the coalface, and not those who dream of the way they would like it to be.
Where is that man who came in hell-bent on doing something to cleanup Invercargills streets in the Weekends,the advocate for our safer streets campaign a man who's name i had never even heard before until he was looking for election and required our vote.
I see the carnage in our C.B.D is an issue down Dee street once more,shop owners were again up in arms about the senseless vandalism they are experiencing to what is their families livelihood.....oh well give it time and they'll forget it until the next time.
First there was 'Unified' an I.L.T initiative to create a set standards for Security working in I.L.T bars that failed, and now there is 'Allied' a Security Group from Dunedin? Does Invercargill not possess the skills to control and take responsibility for its own problems anymore or is it,because I.L.T failed miserably in this area its something that needs to be put in the "Too Hard basket, a lost cause" and we require outside intervention? After watching a couple of outings at "Rugby Park" i for one am not convinced that these so called: Security Professionals are the answer for Southland.
I do not actually have a beef with I.L.T as a whole just certain parts as i know they have done a lot of good and have actually benefitted Invercargill in some areas but i also know that people have been hurt and scarred both physically and emotionally in their venues by the slackness or oversight, in areas their Managers, Barstaff and Doorstaff should already be well versed in if they are in the trade.
It seems we in Invercargill live in a society where the I.L.T has a finger in most of / if not all, the pies. And if you are in the "Old Boys Club" or not it affects you and your business whether you like it or not.
Thank you again for this forum which i have put on my favourites, and I think $10,000 was way too cheap for this site!?
( Name And Address Withheld )
----------------------------
They have been here since the forties?
-
They should have got it right by now. :-)
-
They will be here for another 60 years? :-0
Stef, North Invers
----------------------------
A quick comment for the survey...
The existence of a legislative liquor monopoly can be an enourmous competitive advantage to a city or region, if managed well.
The ILT has delivered benefits to this city that would quite simply not have been possible without it.
However there are some reasonably obvious steps that could be taken to ensure that the benenfits were even greater, and some initiatives that the ILT should employ to ensure that they are viewed more positively and less suspiciously.
For example.
1. Stop spending loads of money advertising to the public how generous you are. The fact that you give money to community projects and initiatives is not generosity. It is law and is what you have to do and why the liquor monopoly and gaming machine system exist. Get on with it and reap the PR rewards through the results not the orchestrated self promotion. People will be less cynical. It is in all of our interets that the ILT is viewed resoundingly positively so that it continues to exist and it can deliver increasing regional benefit.
2. Develop relationships with Invercargill supermarkets for the sale of liqour so that you are the exclusive supplier to them and everyone gets a slice. ie the consumer gets convenience of buying booze when grocery shopping. ILT gets the wholesale margin from a whole new retail channel and the supermarket gets the increased traffic and some liqour retail margin. The loss of market share from the existing retail liquor outlet channel (and forfeiting of a fair chunk of retail margin as a result) is likely to be at least partially offset by total market growth (as supermarket sales of liqur have proven elsewhere) and resultant ncreases in wholesale sales. The deal with the retailers could minimise this loss of retail margin. ie crank up wholesale price and the supermarkets, to be competitive with ILT retail outlets, will have to be very tight with retail margins anyway.
3. Welcome new, independent cafe and restaurant start-ups. It will grow the market through continued growth in dining out culture of locals as well as growing business from visitor markets by developing a more comtemporary, compelling and appealing total food and beverage offering for the city. ie Stick to what you do well like 'formula' restaurants/bars - Lone Star, Speights Ale House, Cobb and Co and even Irish bars as well as mass market, public bars with loads of pokie machines. This is where your assets are best concentrated for maximum financial return. Stay out of top end food establishments unless you consider owner operator structure. ie JV's with restauranteurs.
4. Put some serious focus on customer service through staff education and training and set the standard in the city that all other operators have to match. Invercargill then becomes known for its sparkling customer service rather than its, cutsey, awkward slightly appologetic service culture.
5. Get some serious coffee knowledge. There should be not one instance of any food service establishment serving instant coffee, anywhere, ever. Instant coffee for patrons in the coporate lounge at the stadium is beyond cute. It is now rude and cheap. there we go. Some quick pointers so that everyone is happy.
Just so its clear, if Invercargill is to retain its ability to compete on most fronts with much larger cities and regions the continued existence of the ILT is crucial. It is the only way to go. However lets make the most of a good thing. Lets ensure that the returns on these significant community owned assets are maximised both in economic terms and through contributing to the shared cultural, social and demographic vision for the region.
If the ILT 'sold' itself to the city in a more humble way there would be less negativity towards it and it would be the start point of a positive self fullfilling prophecy.
Leonard, Waikiwi
----------------------------
Cool site Cool Site - love it and about time someone did this to take our town back. And what an idiot they must have in charge of the Trust - yeah i c someone said he didnt like the survey, but would'nt get in the way of free speech. Duhhh... Hes worried about his cushy job and shares i bet. All he can do is try to diss the ppl doing the survey - I bet he would diss all us public that pays his goddam salary if we get in his way. I c you are also going to pick up th emarketing of the site 2 - I'm all for helping with that. emaill me back bud.
Den, Invers
----------------------------
Sorry couldn't send from the way you had it set up, so it did it this way. Hope it helps. Keep up the good work. I love the internet for this purpose, freedom of speech rocks.
I travel a lot and buy bottles of wine and beer when I go away to places like Dunedin, chch and Wellington. The prices the trust put on there alcohol is too expensive, and who's going to stop them, its not like they have competition in the town. One thing that really p*ss's me off the most is, trying to get a bottle of wine on a Sunday night at about 6-7pm. What a mission, the only choices are the southland (if your lucky or the northern. When I could just go to the supermarket which i know will shut at 9.00 or 10.00 o'clock at night, not oh well not many customers coming through tonight, lets just shut up. They have to change, they're too greedy and powerful who call the shots on when we drink, what price we pay to drink and how and where we drink. Their mentality of
bars is to cut, copy and paste. They're all the same. We need new fresh ideas from independent people seperate from the Trust to see Invercargill Grow
Name withheld, Invercargill
----------------------------
Judging by the story in the paper the ILT are pretty rattled - almost indignant that someone could be challenging them! How out of touch can you be? Watch they will spend loads on marketing now (our money) to be everyones friend. Lets not let this chance fade away to get a decent nightlife people of Invers!
Kim J, Rosedale
----------------------------
What process do we need to go through to have a poll to decide whether or nor not we still want the ILT, I have lived in Invercargill for about 12 years now, and I Can’t recall ever being asked whether or not I want to continue with the trust.
I am wondering what we need to do the initiate such a poll, does anyone out there have any ideas. If we want to get rid of this profiteering monopoly, the only way to go, is to do it through the proper channels.
I can’t see why the ILT is afraid of a bit of competition, surely those that want to contribute will do so, no need to impose a nanny state on the general population.
In the meantime, we CAN do something, simply stop buying your booze at ILT outlets, if you go out for an evening, go somewhere other than an ILT booze barn for your entertainment.
Regards, John
----------------------------
Hey you talking shop boys should sell this survey to the supermarkets. I bet they would pay big money to kick the mafia out and sell their beer here like most of us want.
Steve, South City
----------------------------
That Mulvey character has made himself look a bit of a fool - there's clearly some important stuff here in this survey - on one hand he says 'it wont give meaningful results', and on the other hand 'he doesn't want to stifle discussion'. Yeah what he wants is for it to go away. We bet he wishes he had bought it now :-) Kieren, Invercargill
----------------------------
At last, a place where people can actually say what they want about the ILT, in the absence of biased media! Trusts are an anachronism - I urge people to read the report at the Ministry of Justice site for a balanced view. I never thought Dunedin was a cultural paradise until I visit there again! The ILT
is an old-boy network obsessed with sports and expensive sporting edifices, their meetings should be open to the public, Invercargill will stay a cultural backwater until the trust is abolished. They ensure that what competition exists is as bad as them - look at what the new management has done to Tillermans - formerly a great live music venue! Now they are plannign more booze-barns (gee what a marketing revelation) only these are booze-barns for "grown-ups" - what a disaster. Keep up the good work and I will tell everyone I know about this great site. The media article in the "Express" just proves what the Trust fears most is people questioning their existence, they obviously dont feel they need to justify themselves in any way to people who are forced to support the Trust - not my Trust.
Simon, Windsor.
----------------------------
1. I am not a fan of the ILT, but I have found that liquor stores in other places are a bit dearer, if you know of a cheaper one please let me know.
2. No I don't think the ILT have any idea about pubs, we will see what the Ale house is like. Maybe the ILT can learn from it. I see they are trying to open another one opposite - good luck ILT. What happens when you reach 35 - no where to enjoy a dance without teenyboppers ugh!
3 Have no idea and I don't think for the assets they own that they put enough back into the community. They are worth truck loads and put a small percentage in. Also where do they buy their liquor and for how much?
4. Supermarket outlets would be great, at least its one stop shop. Anywhere else in the world you buy liquor from supermarkets and dairies or news agents. Why not here. The ILT could buy a supermarket or dairy and do the same, just at lower prices. But not lower quality. They are ripping us!
5. I don't feel safe in the pubs and
clubs here, always take my drink with me, never let anyone buy me a
drink - you never know. But given the rest of the world and I
have traveled a lot, its all the same. We need a bar, club,
dance floor for the mid 30 onwards to enjoy a night out on the
town. Don't mention Molly's, there last week there may have
been a dozen people there and very very very sad band Get
real ILT. Stop hoarding the money and let us have a night
life.
6. Well with other establishments in competition, they
probably don't put back into the community as I have recently learned
the ILT do. But ILT use that as a bribe to still be
here. So move in new competition and see what the ILT do then!
7. I have never been asked how I would like the ILT to spend the large amount I invest into the community. Perhaps they should have a survey, then again Tim might find some waste of time and space to spend our money on again and bang again its gone.
8. I think there would be a whole lot more employed in the hospitality industry if the ILT weren't here as they don't know the meaning of good hotel staff or amenities, wouldn't have any idea how to present or even get a good chef to cook a decent meal. I have given them heaps of chances and always go outside the ILT for such service. So if more people were happy with the services offered more people would use them and therefore more people would be employed. ILT are booze barn fed on chips and crap with no taste, absolutely no idea what etiquette is or means and has crap food in all eating places.
As I said there is nothing wrong with them being there for giving back to the community, but not to make huge salaries and invest profits into property we have no idea about. The books are to confusing to read to say the least. Bit like Bond and Bond we as ratepayers invested in that without our participation and now they close the doors on the ratepayers while they sort out who's hand to smack and who to give the golden hand shake to. By god they are infuriating. Now while I am on the subject, have a survey to see who really want Tim for mayor and why. I have spoken to many and haven't found anyone yet, bar a few less than intellectual people that actually voted for him - ?
Thank you for letting me have my say, really great to get this sorted. Cheers
----------------------------
The ILT encourage addicts to spend money they can't afford. The gambling money returned to the community is only returned because it is a legal requirement .cheers
Bob, Invercargill
----------------------------
I am not against a charitable trust as such. What I am against is the fact that the people of Invercargill do not have freedom of choice. Much of the money raised by the ILT goes to able bodied organisations such as sports clubs who are quite capable of doing their own fundraising, if only they could overcome the inertia and get out and do just that instead of becoming dependants of the ILT. In addition, the ILT pays itself quite high salaries and perks, and is just another form of taxation, in my view. Not only do the ILT control where liquor cabin be bought but also places restrictions on the hours that it can be bought.
I was asked by a motorist about 7-30 pm in the evening where he could buy some beer to take back to his motel. He has just arrived after a long drive, and shock horror, the man wanted a cool beer in the privacy of his own room. I had to tell him that all the ILT outlets were padlocked shut. What a bunch of absolute wowsers he must have thought Invercargill to be. I can see his point.
Apart from anything else, what about the freedom of private enterprise. We do not need monopolies to control anything in NZ, in particular liquor sales. All the best, I am just enjoying a glass of wine, of course purchased outside the ILT area. I strongly urge others to do what I do, and avoid buying their liquor at the ILT's booze barns.
John, Invercargill
----------------------------
Just patronising xxxx from ILT ppl blogging I see here - telling us how grateful we should be and trying to teach us economics - pffft. Keep getting it wrong - I don't like how you run the town and neither do most of my friends. I will sign petition. You can have the velodrome back.
Jen, South City.
----------------------------
Great to see this Poll - lets get something done and make some changes
Ian, Invercargill
----------------------------
My family and I have lived in Invercargill for 9 years now. We call it our home of choice, I have a son that goes to school here and my wife is in business. We have made investments here that would not have been possible anywhere else that we have lived because Invercargill and Southland is full of opportunity. I wish to add some balance to some of the comments made on this site. I have worked in 13 Hotels in the past 27 years in 4 countries in the South Pacific. All of these Hotels were run by National or International Corporate Chains with the exception of one being the old Tourist Hotel Corporation of New Zealand, it was government owned. All of the profits made by these companies (with the exception of the THC Hotels), went back to their owners, they lived in Singapore and the US. The focus of these companies was solely to make profit. I had no issue with this, because at the time I did not know something better existed right here in New Zealand. The closest I ever saw to a community contribution as made by one of these Hotels was some of the senior management sponsored the occasional horse race or Santa Parade Float. Invercargill as a city has more infrastructure across a broader base than any I have known for a city of it's size. I am talking of things like Rugby Park, The ILT Velodrome, Stadium Southland, Splash Palace, none of these would have existed without contributions from the Invercargill Licensing Trust. Now as the city matures and takes on a more vibrant shimmer thanks to Mayor Tim and his passion for Invercargill, many of those in the community realize the future of the city lies with its youth. Right now we have money being pumped into education, the arts, sports, in fact anything that anyone wishes to apply for funding for, that has merit for the Invercargill community. I am one of those 650 who you may wish to see working in a deregulated environment but I want you to know I am serious about my commitment to the community. I fund raise, I work on projects that bring people to our city and I am proud of the contribution I make to running this Hotel, creating profit for the Invercargill Licensing Trust and the owners of the trust, the people of Invercargill. I even help to create jobs by doing some of these things. I believe I am part of a larger team who have values just like me. I do not believe the same contributions would be made back to the community without the Invercargill Licensing Trust and it's individual businesses as there would be no compulsion for individual owner operators to share their hard earned profits. None! Many that have commented on this site simply want to have cheaper access to alcohol, more bands, more bars and desire open market but it is important to understand success in business is all about demand. To have more restaurants you need people to fill them. To have more bands you need to have the people that are prepared to pay to see these bands, not all of these people exist in sufficient numbers in Invercargill to make these things viable. This is not Queenstown and you cannot compare the two. To have cheaper booze from supermarkets you need to accept that very little of the profit taken will flow back into the community by way of the supermarket owners, simply because they don't have to share. Have you ever asked yourself why these supermarkets place full page adds in the Southland Time advertising liquor specials knowing that if you live in Invercargill you can not have access to these specials? Is that the sort of commitment to the community you think we need? Would it not be better if they spent some of that advertising money on a significant community project? I believe in the Invercargill Licensing Trust, it's values and would happily argue its merits to anyone with passion!
Pete, Invercargill
----------------------------
Its about time someone had a close look at the doings at the ILT - good on ya!
Kev, Invercargill
----------------------------
That link sent in by somebody earlier - the NZ justice report for the government - is brilliant: http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/1997/liquor/licensing.html and it does says that if 15% of the electors (us) call for a referendum we can challenge the ILT's status. And in the four times this has happened, only one of the existing trusts remains: "The Act does make provision for these privileges to be challenged by way of what is known as a "competition proposal", namely a referendum which the licensing trust is obliged to call if so requested by 15 percent of the electors. To date, polls have been held in four districts, Masterton, Clutha, Oamaru and Ashburton, of which only Ashburton now enjoys its former privileges. " Have a look people!
Jim B, Windsor
----------------------------
People both for and against the ILT should read this as it is a government report on licensing trusts. Remember these people do not have a personal bias. http://www.justice.govt.nz/pubs/reports/1997/liquor/licensing.html
Name withheld, Invercargill
----------------------------
wot is so rong with the trust?
murph, Ingill
----------------------------
Motels and gambling also? Nah its wrong. What next? Chemists?
Kes, Gladstone
----------------------------
I hadn't realised how much more we can pay for some items compared to say New World or Countdown shops. Why does Southland have to look so retarded?
Graham H, Invercargill City
----------------------------
They have finally scrapped the 'capers - couldn't even spell it correctly and the food was crap. Wonder what drivel they will serve up next?
Ellen H, Invercargill
----------------------------
have a look at the website of the company that runs this poll - talking shop - they are based in Invercargill and run other polls too. I thought this was some personal vendetta against the ILT - but it doesn't seem to be, really - it looks like talking shop make a living from running polls like these - giving ppl their chance to say what they feel about things- not just invers but other ones.
Kieren, Invers
----------------------------
My dad reckons the ILT have a huge stranglehold on the city and don't give a **** about what we think, cos they wont be taken out or anything. Most old people are afraid of what Invers would be like without the Trust mafia to prop it up.
Gordon H, Kildare
---------------------------
Has anyone been involved in the market research that the ILT talk about in the Times today? I sure haven't.
George Y, Invercargill
---------------------------
In today's paper the ILT booze shop has Heineken 'on sale' at $40 for 2x12! Only $4 dollars more than Woolworths Dunedin! I see they have also researched the market and are opening a new drinking venue.
Sarah T, Waikiwi
---------------------------
Its just a one-off I am sure, but today in Woolworths in Dunedin they had 12 pack Heineken for $17.99. How much is it in town here at our lovely ILT places? ;-)
Sarah T, Waikiwi
---------------------------
Do you understand how the Trust is structured and its legal mandate? Yes, Do you?
Neil, Invercargill
---------------------------
I know I'm a bit sad but I so look forward to seeing the new comments every day. This is great to see.
Sarah T, Invercargill
---------------------------
1. Does alcohol cost the same in Invercargill as in other comparable towns? No it is noticeably more expensive unless you choose the rubbish selection of lolly water more affordable beverages.
2. Do you believe that Invercargill has the right mix & selection of entertainment in its pubs & clubs? No. there is little selection and it has a majority of cheap sleazy tacky environments crammed with binge drinking abusive louts, ruining any hope of a sophisticated establishment
3. Do you understand how the Trust is structured and its legal mandate? As a ratepayer i have never had any information on how the system is run, or why its pre-historic existence remains, and how if any it can be disputed
4. Should alcohol be available to purchase in Invercargill supermarkets? Yes, its a convenience that the rest of the country enjoys responsibly, even Otatara, and Winton have shown its not an issue so why must the inner city miss out
5. Are Invercargill pubs and clubs safer than those of other comparable towns? There are some establishments that don't attract irresponsible drinking habits, but often than not there are exempt from the ILT and the main ILT establishments ie: The sugar shack, the frog are a haven for cheap drunks attracted by childish gimmicks and promotions and irresponsible bar staff
6. Do you believe that there is fair competition in the hospitality industry in Invercargill? Not a competition in the sense that you have a choice of a sloppy, degrading environment or a classy cafe/bar that cant serve you unless your dining and not after 1am if they get that far, because of what seems like a blacklisted persona handed down by ILT bigwigs
7. Are you happy with how the ILT spends your money? I havent used or ever believe i would use any of what they pour there money into, and almost feel it to be supporting there ancient regime by doing so.
8. Would 650 people be employed in the region by the hospitality industry in the absence of a licensing trust? I believe that the best thing to do would be to break down the licensing trust, thus giving the town more opportunities for more diverse cultures and atmospheres to be encouraged into the city, making it more of a place people would be attracted to opening up the way for more tourism and hospitality industrys to invest in this place and bring it back up to the present day instead of being 20 years behind the rest of the country.
The most frustrating part of the hold on the city the ILT has, is the terrible music choice we have to listen to, more and more talented musicians and bands that tour New Zealand opt out of coming to the town yet will happily head to Queenstown, I believe if there was more establishments with a more current and relevant approach to todays entertainment scene that Invercargill could rise out of the proverbial ashes that it has slumped into, bought about by the moronic views of the licensing trust. We have attracted the population with zero fees, and increased tourism ventures but fail to hold them here with a abysmal approach to entertainment and social ventures. When will the ratepayers see the sense that the ILT has done all it can in the city and now needs to be abolished so that the nazi regime it dictates can finally be bought to a conclusion and let the city progress to its full potential inside of being held back by absurd by-laws.
Helena, Invercargill
---------------------------
Got this link from the invervegas website. Seems to be some passion here and strong feeling. How do we know if the ILT are interested in these responses?
Jon, Invervegas
---------------------------
I believe that Invercargill would be much better without the ILT, why do we need them?? so we get their dirty money that was ours in first place?? they have to give that money out, if they had the choice I bet they wouldn't!! They're mobsters, that run the city & have too much control, the ICC kisses their ass. They've wrecked the entertainment scene down here, where is a good live venue?? no where!! all we have is small dirty bars that play the same old top 20 songs, and non ILT can't compete with them so they do the same thing!! Where are the bands meant play?? hence the reason why hardly no bands come down here!! we've lost a lot of gigs down here, because the venues are crap. All the ILT cares about is profit, alcohol, gambling & sports!!
Jamie, Invercargill
---------------------------
You have asked us to indicate where in Invercargill I live, I assume this is where you would like the information. I think this site would be a little difficult for people not so computer experienced as some. The copy and paste procedure for emailing would be a little hard for some and would imagine some people would probably give up which I imagine would be good out come for you because you would then say not many people bothered to submit a survey form. A 'no comment box' which other internet surveys shown clearly would have been easier to follow as well, as even myself who is on computers a lot was not sure were to put my comments. Even now as I type this I'm not sure if this is right. I live in North West Invercargill and am a great believer in competition. I agree you provide great funding for Southland, and so you should, you have the monopoly of hospitality in town and make huge profits. You have huge wealth and I think the government set out rules for the 'pokie' machines that make you give back so much. As for alcohol is Supermarkets, yes you should allow it. What are you afraid off? ILT make such large profits and I am sure would still continue to do so with Wine and Beer sales through the supermarkets. Life is all about choice and ILT don't give their loyal patrons any choice. Buying wine etc in supermarket is not for every one and thats fine but the option should be there. ILT wants to promote Southland as a happening and going places province, but the simplest go ahead thing isn't happening here. Give us a choice! Personally because I travel a lot I haven't purchased a lot of wine from the Trust for over a year as I am often in other centres and always take the opportunity to stock up on my wine supplies at significantly cheaper prices prices in supermarkets. I get very annoyed at eating out at Trust establishments. I recently dinned at a non trust restaurant and had a bottle of wine, a couple of nights later I am in a Trust restaurant and the same bottle of wine was $12.00 dearer, how does that figure, given that the non trust establishment had to buy the wine off the trust in the first place and then still sold it cheaper??. I also hold the trust responsible for the mess in our inner city on Thursday, Friday and Saturday nights. Patrons que to get in the pubs and have no access to loos so relieve them selves in allies and shop windows etc, or just vomit where they are standing. Please consider providing portable toilets over the weekend in the inner city to help avoid this problem, they can then be removed on Sunday morning and hopefully prevent the other public in general from having to side step unpleasant deposits when they are up town and save the shop keepers time in the morning so they don't have to clean up the mess. I could go on forever about the trust, ILT have a monopoly and need to relax it to encourage growth in the city of other options for Southlanders. Thank You
Alex, North West Invercargill
---------------------------
A cobber of mine is a buyer for one of the big supermarket chains based in Auckland. I a speaking to him today and will tell him to have a look at the site. I reckon that they will be very interested in making sure this site runs and runs - I see it is for sale. They spend inches on national advertising that they get no return on in Invercargill, and miss lots of revenue from beer and wine sales. Personally, I am indifferent. The ILT seem a little more about self aggrandisement at the moment, although they spin it well. They do seem to help the local economy though.
George Y, Invercargill
---------------------------
Thank you for this website - we watch with interest
Ian K, Invercargill
---------------------------
There is no point whining about the ILT, they are what we wanted.
Gloria F, North Invercargill
---------------------------
On the face of the responses on this site I think there is surely some merit in asking for a proper petition.
Jim B, Windsor
---------------------------
The question about 650 people being employed in the hospitality industry is a good one - I see the ILT boast about it on their website. On one hand you might think that it is a great thing, but in reality, if they weren't here, a regular industry would probably develop anyway - it would reach its natural size and shape. May or not be 650. If not, then the ILT is bigger than it should be?
Kieren, Invercargill
---------------------------
The town would be a mess without the ILT - I think we would struggle to attract people to the area.
Sean Y, Invercargill
---------------------------
What about running a petition - there seems to be a lot of support for change, particularly purchasing beer in supermarkets - why not ask the supermarkets to run it? How could we do it?
Ellen H, Invercargill
---------------------------
I see we are still seeing the same parochial 'fingers in ears' approach to the ILT with completely unjustified or unsubstantiated statements of 'support': 'Alcohol should not be sold in supermarkets - we do not need more liquor outlets.' Etc etc.
Sarah T, Waikiwi
---------------------------
Alcohol should not be sold in supermarkets - we do not need more liquor outlets. Supermarkets certainly wouldn't provide Invercargill with anywhere near the same benefits we receive now from the ILT. We are very happy with the Licensing Trust.
Anne E, Invercargill
---------------------------
I have mixed feelings about the ILT. Sure it is nice some of the things they spend our money on, but I think the standard of evening entertainment in the town remains poor. Judging by the responses here, It looks as if the independent motel keepers of the town aren't too happy with the ILT either!
Scott L, South City
---------------------------
I wish I could say that pubs were safer here in Invercargill than anywhere else, but it just isn't true.
Kelly J, Invercargill
---------------------------
While I agree that the ILT does good work it is like all monopolies. Very downward and anti competition. Most of the money given out is from gambling. They use a system of bribery to buy acceptance from a wide raft of groups. The present top two executives have full discretion and tell board what to do. Standards of host responsibility and service are very poor as the managers are profit driven. They follow, rather than lead, the industry, as shown by the latest cuisine awards where no ILT restaurant was in the top 10. In my area, Waikiwi, the ILT provides a run down tavern for a large population base with no adequate dining - just bar snacks. Greater efficiency would be possible if the Board leased out its various functions. The income would be very similar but there would be a measure of private initiative this way. All profits would go via the Board and the public would win. The ILT intrusion into motels is very tough on private operators who use their own money but cannot compete with ILT liquor profits, offsetting times of poor trading.
Anne & B S, Waikiwi
---------------------------
Looking at their website, they seem to have lots of motels. I'm not sure that's the way it should be, as it could be a disincentive to outside companies and investors without a level playing field.
Emma P, South City
---------------------------
Its hard to imagine Invercargill without its Licensing Trust. That doesn't mean its right though. I found this site through Yahoo search as I was looking for information on the ILT.
Graham K, Invercargill
---------------------------
Watching with interest.
Steve G, Gladstone
---------------------------
Now I see how they make some of their money I'm not so sure I like how they spend it. How can we have a say?
Simon N, Windsor
---------------------------
The supermarkets sell most beer and wine cheaper than we can buy here in town. They have their ads in the daily papers but have to say they are not allowed to sell beer and wine in our town.
Gregg, South City
---------------------------
After reading a previous post I went to see the sign on the velodrome - sure enough, 'ILT'!! Its been called the ILT velodrome! And I had never even heard of a velodrome. I guess there's a reason no other towns have one.
Jeremy H, Waikiwi
---------------------------
The ILT still feels like prohibition or NZ in the eighties.
Name withheld at request
---------------------------
Why are you people having a go at the ILT? They do great things for the town and the pubs are great.
Mere, North Invercargill
---------------------------
How come this is not an 'official' poll?
Jim B, Windsor
---------------------------
Saw this in the Southland Times and had to have a look - I will write full submission later! It seems that many people are still completely brainwashed in their thinking about the ILT. How long will this site and poll run for?
Kieren, Invercargill
---------------------------
Hey I found this about the ILT and Gambling Story: ILT Complies & Removes gambling machines
- from 2003.
Walter, Otatara
---------------------------
The thought of the ILT being involved in gambling leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Simon N, Windsor
---------------------------
I think that Invercargill has a pretty good mix of entertainment. You couldn't get a coffee anywhere here 8 years ago.
Hillary, Invercargill
---------------------------
I didn't realise the ILT was making a profit from gambling. That's disgusting - its so destructive.
Walter, Otatara
---------------------------
I have been watching this site since my friend emailled me the link on Sunday, and now feel compelled to respond - thank you to Talking Shop, whoever you are, for the opportunity.
Oh dear oh dear. Sadly, some of the posts here are clearly evidence of the one eyed attitude that many of our citizens have towards their beloved ILT. How can anyone say that we wouldn't have had a scanner and velodrome (and why bother with a velodrome?)? Sadly, this argument simply doesn't hold water. Invercargill people paid for it. The ILT takes the credit. Huh? In fact, its possible anyone could have paid for them. Interventions like that however, provide for poor economics and lack of fair competition.
More than 33% back into the community from gambling - whoop de doo! Hopefully it goes to treating the gambling addictions which are crippling many people in this town. What the hell are they doing in gambling? And in any case, it should ALL be going back. They only give <66% back? Where is the rest going? Wages? Salaries? Gee, I will have some of that please! How can other enterprises or entrepreneurs compete with that? Sickening. Some seem to feel a begrudging inevitability that the ILT is here to stay. Why?
I have mailed the link to this website to all my friends who I hope will also make their comments.
Kim J, Rosedale
---------------------------
I think the ILT does a fantastic job and one that everyone in Invercargill should be proud of. Without the ILT Invercargill would not have an MRI Scanner, Learners Pool, Velodrome or many of the other wonderful things that the ILT has contributed towards - not only with funding but also with driving many of the projects undertaken.So many people only take into account the fact that with the ILT they can't buy their wine or beer in the local supermarket but they should consider what would happen if there was no ILT and the could purchase their alcohol in supermarkets - the owners of those supermarkets are only interested in their own profits not in putting their profits back into Invercargill.As part of a course I recently did a paper on the ILT and was amazed to learn how much they actually do for Invercargill. I learnt that by legislation they are required to give 33% of the profit from their gaming machines back to the community - they don't give 33% - they give almost twice that much. Who else would do that ??I think people should stop complaining and actually find out more about the ILT. I notice they now have a new logo and I think the by-line in it "your City, you Trust" is very appropriate.
Vicki, Waikiwi
---------------------------
Hmmm... Interesting post Liz. I am new to Invercargill from overseas and didn't realise the ILT was publicly owned. How can they put their sign up on the Velodrome with ILT when its us, the people of Invercargill that have paid for it? I know a couple of people (like me) who definitely don't realise that it we pay for it. We pay for their wages and everything? I am guessing by looking at the poll above that alcohol costs more here in Invercargill than it does in other towns. How can that be right? I will keep an eye on this site with interest. It does seem that the lines are being blurred between being a some faceless corporation and something the people own. I don't think I have ever had a say (up till now, and thanks for the forum!) in how the ILT operates and spends our money. It sure seems some people feel they have overstepped the mark. I don't even know what that mark is.
Margo, Kildare
---------------------------
What a great site finally an independent area to gather unbiased opinions in ILT unfortunately I agree with others comments they are here to stay although they have spent money in areas all Southlanders benefit from and now with the Stadium and Velodrome both NZ and overseas competitors will benefit. ILT have such a strong hold on Invercargill we will never be rid of them. With Southlanders can do attitude and passion if we were not an ILT town we would have still raised the money needed through support from all independently owned hotels, pubs, restaurants and businesses the money would have still been there, the ILT would still be trading in Invercargill as privately owned, still flying their own flag but competition would be more open and fair.
I was pleased your poll recognized it is indeed OUR money ILT spends if they didn’t have a monopoly in our town we wouldn’t be constantly lining their pockets to enable them to subsidize the building of our wonderful facilities, they are however clever enough to put the money where they will get the best return for themselves thus leading to the naming of the Velodrome and publicity for ILT gained in partially financing the Velodrome I was extremely disappointed to see huge ILT letters on the Velodrome building and throughout the track when surely since they constantly reminded us what they were doing for Southland in allocating this money for a such wonderful complex it would be more in keeping with the Stadium Southland for naming to be Southland Velodrome & sporting complex.
Further more I too am totally against ILT having any financial interest in any property or business not directly associated with Alcohol as they are a licensing trust why are they buying up Motels and extending into the motel industry both in Invercargill and other towns. It is almost hypocritical other businesses are NOT treated equally to the ILT when they try to set up businesses requiring liquor licenses in Invercargill and how do you compete in the Motel industry against a monopoly with an unlimited budget , you absolutely cannot say it is fair competition.
If ILT feel they must extend their accommodation supply they should stay within the Hotel Industry where they belong.
Liz, Invercargill
---------------------------
The ILT should not be in the Motel industry. The ILT should be in the hotel & liquor & gaming industry only. Invercargill has a not enough hotel beds in proportion to motel beds. The ILT runs the only 2 hotels in the city well and has the resources to build and operate a large city hotel with a well known brand. The ILT should let other Hotel brands into Invercargill to provide fair competition. Liquor control has had a positive effect on Invercargill , i.e. Stadium Southland and charitable works.
John, Invercargill,
---------------------------
Buy your alcohol in Winton - way cheaper!
Simon N, Windsor
---------------------------
We don't want big outside corporations coming in and taking over the scene down here - we like to do it our way, and the ILT is our way. The ILT is here to stay, like it or not.
Nathan R.
---------------------------
Come on lets have beer for sale in supermarkets!
Martin J, Gladstone
---------------------------
I think the ILT is an absolute credit to the city. We have a fine new velodromme and no one has that. No other town benefits so much from a charity and keeps the money in the town, not to some big outside company. The pubs in town are safe and there are plenty of things to do in the evenings. So what if beer costs a litle bit more? Its worth it.
Joan F, Waikiwi.
---------------------------
Trying to get a liquor licence is nearly impossible if you are not ILT. I gave up.
Name withheld at request.
---------------------------
Invercargill needs the ILT
Pete R, South City
---------------------------
Gee the ILT is a sad old system which skews the economy of the area. Should have left Invercargill along with the banjo players.
Sarah T, Waikiwi.
---------------------------
I travel to Dunedin every week with work, so pick up my beer from there. It is significantly cheaper in Countdown there.
Mark M, Otatara
------------------------------
They seem to do good things for the town.
Mike J, Gladstone
------------------------------
Under New Management
Have your say
Links & News
Trusthouse - a management company for southern North Island Trusts
Trust to keep up donations
Southland Times - Invercargill,New Zealand
By DYLAN THORNE - The Southland Times | Wednesday, 04 February 2009 The Invercargill Licensing Trust plans to shell out $10 million in community grants ...
Tennis upgrade nears completion
Southland Times - Invercargill,New Zealand
Weather permitting, the more-than $1 million upgrade, supported by the Invercargill Licensing Trust and the Community Trust of Southland, should be finished ..
Stadium seeks cash to repair damage
Southland Times - Invercargill,New Zealand
The stadium has asked for funding totalling $500000 from Invercargill City Council, $400000 from the Invercargill Licensing Trust, $200000 from the ...
Shack to get new name, address
Invercargill Licensing Trust marketing manager Gary Muir said it had been public knowledge for several months that the trust was looking at rebranding the ...
Gearing up for Munro Challenge
Invercargill Licensing Trust sales and marketing manager Gary Muir said it was a great event for all of Southland's hospitality establishments and he was ...
ILT forges ahead with multi million-dollar revamp of outlets
The Invercargill Licensing Trust is moving ahead with plans to spend millions of dollars revamping some of its establishments, including the Northern Tavern.
Legislation which covers Licensing Trusts in New Zealand... More...
Coach pledges greater emphasis on madison in buildup to 2012 Olympics
The Southland Times - Southland,New Zealand
It's also an ideal opportunity for his squad to add some competitive elements to the training being done at the ILT Velodrome this week. ...
Licensing Trust (New Zealand) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
20 Jul 2008 ... The Invercargill Licensing Trust (ILT) was the first such body, ... Pubs, Pints and People: 50 Years of the Invercargill Licensing Trust, ...